My first digital camera

[Jorge Torralba]

Well,

I did it. I purchased a used canon 1DS and a new 24-70 2.8 lens. I must say compared to my leica or xpan, this thing is like a bowling ball. Its going to make my camping trips just a little more tiring :)

[Designer]

Hi Jorge,

Congratulations!!:D

[Designer]

Originally posted by Jorge Torralba
Well,

I did it. I purchased a used canon 1DS and a new 24-70 2.8 lens. I must say compared to my leica or xpan, this thing is like a bowling ball. Its going to make my camping trips just a little more tiring :)

Jorge,

IDs is almost the only DSLR could making full advantages of the 24-70 f2.8 lens. And your next toy could be a 70-200 f2.8 IS USM.:D

[JohnL]

Nothing like starting at the top! (hint of jealousy?)

[mfs]

Welcome to the digital world. Although, I am a rangefinder user, the conversion to digital has been easy, fun, and expensive ($$$$$).
True the equipment is larger, and heavier, but the instant replay, exposure evaluation, and better telephoto use makes it worth it. Also, DSLR's have all the advantages, and disadvantages of the film SLR design.
Perhaps the digital RF's will help to combine the two techniques, and make for a better (and lighter) package.
Good luck.

Martin

[Hawkeye34]

Hi everyone,

My first digital camera was a Nikon D70. I used it the first day to shoot some pictures that were published in a magazine here on the south coast of Spain - it was so like my Nikon film cameras that I transferred without a hitch. The workflow is different of course.

I still find the weight and bulk a bit daunting to carry for daily use though. Instead, I carry my second digital camera, a Panasonic Lumix DMC-LC1, which is not a DSLR per se, but sufficiently like a digital Leica M in actual use that I prefer using it (and its results) to the D70. It is absolutely silent in use, shoots superb pictures which I can enlarge up to 8x10" at home, and which will go a lot bigger when printed in a local lab, and which gives me the equivalent of five Leica lenses in one zoom.

As I am an old rangefinder shooter since I began taking photographs back in the 50s, I find working with this camera easier than the D70. Although it is not a genuine RF camera with an optical viewfinder, it is "near enough" in digital terms to justify having a forum to itself - it is IMO the crossover between this forum and the RF forum.

My D70 does a fine job of wide angle shooting, using the 12-24mm lens. The LC1's widest is (officially) 28mm, but I seem to find it nearer 25mm in use - I have not done a true comparison though. For a more portable long lens however, I have ordered the Panasonic FZ20, which incorporates a Leica zoom that covers 35mm-432mm, all image stabilised, and f2.8 throughout.

Please, Jorge, how about having a separate forum, or even a thread, covering this new type of hybrid digital that is born directly of the MiniDV cameras ?

Staying OT however, I still like my D70 very much, but it does not do as much work as it did before I bought the LC1.

[abargrill]

Hi, all. I'm also a sometimes rangefinder user that has been doing digital capture for a year now. I started with the Digital Rebel and purchased a G5 a few months later. I like the Rebel but I love the G5 --- It is an excellent street machine: quiet, fast (when prefocused) and allows shooting from the waist, like my beloved and now long-sold Mamiya tlrs. I'm glad to see this forum !!

[Gene]

Originally posted by Jorge Torralba
Well,

I did it. I purchased a used canon 1DS and a new 24-70 2.8 lens. I must say compared to my leica or xpan, this thing is like a bowling ball. Its going to make my camping trips just a little more tiring :)
That's one amazing cam, Jorge. Congratulations!

The Luminous Landscape site compares this cam not to 35mm but to medium format. And I've seen the work of one landscape photographer (a kind of modern-day Ansel Adams) who uses this cam on a tripod and takes multiple exposures, varying each exposure, then combining the results in Photoshop. The dynamic range of his work has to be seen to be believed...

Gene

[Rodinal Addict]

Hey Gene, Who is this photographer that combines digital images? Does he have a website?

[Gene]

Originally posted by Rodinal Addict
Hey Gene, Who is this photographer that combines digital images? Does he have a website?
His name is Mahesh Thapa and his website is:

http://www.starvingphotographer.com/

Gene

[Jorge Torralba]

not a good shot bust one of the first as I learn to use the camera.

[Jorge Torralba]

One more

[gwelland]

I looked at the pictures and thought that there was something familiar with them ... I'm in Portland/Vancouver too!

Glad to see you are enjoying the 1Ds. Did you get it pre-owned locally?

[Jorge Torralba]

ebay. Its so heavy :(

[gwelland]

I used to shoot with the Nikon D1 and then D1x and I know what you mean about the weight. It helps with using the camera but you do end up with a camera bag that weighs an absolute ton with only a few bits of lass.

In the end I sold my Nikon gear figuring that my Mamiya 645AFD & back wasn't actually any heavier and so I'd go with that instead.

1Ds - good choice. Not a bad place to start with your DSLR!!!

[sfaust]

What back are you using on the 645AFD? And what do you think of it after using it all this time?

[gwelland]

Originally posted by sfaust
What back are you using on the 645AFD? And what do you think of it after using it all this time?

I shoot with the Kodak DCS 645M back on the Mamiya. The images are 4080x4080 16mp 12bit and are simply gorgeous. The colour rendition beats my Nikon's effortlessly and the images are much more 'film like' if that makes sense? Even after a year and a half I'm still stunned by the fact that I find so much detail in the images, particularly when you print them 11x14 or above. On a large print the experience is similar to how you can dig deeper and deeper into a 4x5 or 8x10 image. With the D1x and D100 that I used before it was often more a case of running out of resolution, even when I processed my D1x raw files as 10Mp from the camera.

I happen to love the square format of the image but the only real downside is that the sensor is less than 645 full frame (it's 37mm square) and so the lenses on the 645AFD are effectively the same as their 35mm equivalents. (i.e. the wide angle 35mm Mamiya lens acts like a std 35mm rather than it's effective 24mm that you would get on 120 film). You get a modified focussing screen with the sensor dimensions on it for composition.

I have two backs now and I wouldn't go back to film. Cleaning the sensor is a dream compared to my D1x (Jorge has a DUST shock coming!) since you have full access to a HUGE sensor. It fills 2Gb micro-drives at a prodigious rate and you have to compare them to film since you get 46 raw shots per 2Gb drive.

The backs/camera combo can be temperamental at times but its easy to reset. One of the issues that I don't like is that the LCD on the back has a polished cover and can be difficult to see in bright conditions, although it makes for a great personal eyeball examiner because when its almost like a mirror under these conditions.

Overall I'm not tempted to return to the 35mm stuff as I personally didn't find it much more convenient although obviously the metering and automation was much better than the Mamiya/Kodak. I even live with 35mm being my widest lens at the moment.

Maybe I'll post some pictures in the gallery and you can make up your own mind.

[sfaust]

I am contemplating a MF digital back, so I would be more than happy to see some images. If you'd like, to make it easy to get a couple full res images, I'd give you my FTP account and you can upload directly to my server.

Buying a MF back is a tad (said lightly) more expensive than any 35mm digital counterpart. While I may change 35mm digital SLR bodies on a whim, I need to think about where I will go with a MF setup. Its a longer term comittment.

I used a Mamiya 645 for a long time and was happy with the camera and its quality. I wouldn't heistate to get another one as the front end to a sensor.

Which 645 body are you using? Any other issues you've had with it? How about post processing software, raw, etc? Do you loose the abiliity to pop off the back and shoot film if need be (ie, back failure, battery issues, etc). And finally, how much time/images are normal on a fully charged battery (approx)?

Off doing research on the 645M back...

[Jorge Torralba]

You should read this review:

http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/Canon-1ds-mkii-p1.shtml

Its hard to believe even for myself that a 35mm DSLR can compete with a MF with a digital back and Zeiss lens. But the test results are pretty convincing

[Designer]

Originally posted by gwelland

I have two backs now and I wouldn't go back to film. Cleaning the sensor is a dream compared to my D1x (Jorge has a DUST shock coming!) since you have full access to a HUGE sensor. It fills 2Gb micro-drives at a prodigious rate and you have to compare them to film since you get 46 raw shots per 2Gb drive.



gwelland,

Do you always equip your gear w/. a notebook computer?

Keven

[Jorge Torralba]

I have heard a lot about the dust. Is this something that can be cleaned with air or does it require service?

[sfaust]

It depends on the manufacturer. Most recommend you send it in to be services, some has very strict cleaning procedures, and some will recommend but not cover any damage to the sensor if they feel it was due to cleaning.

Basically, its a big issue! Learn to do it yourself, do it right, and be very very careful. Or, end up sending it out every few months after the dust builds up to intollerable levels. You will get very intimate with the healing brush :)

[sfaust]

Originally posted by Jorge Torralba
You should read this review:

http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/Canon-1ds-mkii-p1.shtml

Its hard to believe even for myself that a 35mm DSLR can compete with a MF with a digital back and Zeiss lens. But the test results are pretty convincing

I've read that review recently. I've also read a few others and seen some samples from the leaf backs that show better than the 1Ds. The jaggies in his example have been noticed in other comparisons, so I'm just not convinced yet. Its close, but not quite the same quality. I'd really like to compare the MF images from gwellands samples if he has time to send me some.

The other thing I like about the MF solution is that its both a film and digital solution! Try that with a 35mm. Switch between the best of both worlds, either of them blowing away the quality of 35mm in either film or digital use. I could easily see going to a 645 solution with a digital back, and 2 or 3 120 or 220 backs for film use. Ideal in my eyes. I'd only keep a DSLR around for high speed action and long fast lenses, or traveling lighter than the MF setup.

[gwelland]

The Mamiya 645 AFD shoots both film and digital. In fact I used it exclusively for film until such time as I could afford the digital back the first time around. I didn't buy my digital backs new which made them a lot more affordable. (Going rate is about $5-6k at the moment).

The film advantage is that you can get really wide angle using the Mamiya lens range vs. digital crop.

If you were comparing camera systems today then I think that overall the costs would be similar to getting the 1Ds II, i.e. $7k for body/back, and then the glass which is comparable in $$$ . The 1Ds is more affordable now if you can find one. If you buy brand new then costs obviously can be a lot higher for the backs, although they are beginning to drop. The Mamiya ZD back/body might make a competitive dent in the market for some users.

If you are starting from scratch then I can see that the 1Ds/1Ds II, Kodak DCS Slr/n, Slr/c (now on $1000 rebate) or the new Nikon D2x would all make for great comparable systems with the advantage of more automation and perhaps more suitable for general use. The Mamiya is OK but, if I'm honest, my previous D1x was perhaps more versatile if you wanted a single camera that could do absolutely anything. In the end I sold my Nikon kit to buy a second digital back, primarily because I wasn't using it any more, it wasn't any lighter to carry and use, and finally because I was somewhat exposed by the fact that kodak discontinued the 645M and I'd become addicted to it. :-)

Finally, if you are looking at the high end cameras (Canon 1Ds/1Ds II, Nikon D1x/D2x/D2h etc), then you should note that these are heavy cameras - which is great because they are pro-class robust workhorses. Realistically, my old D1x ensemble with lenses was no lighter than Mamiya setup with lenses. For travel use I now carry a Leica D2 digital rangefinder which I can't recommend highly enough, although I'd buy the cheaper identical Panasonic LC1 if I were doing it again next time. (That's almost a segway into the Rangefinder site...)

[gwelland]

Originally posted by Designer
gwelland,

Do you always equip your gear w/. a notebook computer?

Keven

I do carry a laptop for image storage and review. The camera runs untethered though.

I have a tiny Sony PCG-U3 which makes for a great review machine that I can also tether to the camera if necessary. Reviewing the images on the camera's LCD isn't very practical except for gross out of focus/exposure histogram checking.

[sfaust]

Jorge, would you mind sending me a full res image also? I am serious about getting a MF back, but would also consider the 1Ds as well. Without samples I can load into photoshop, its real hard to just go spend $10K on a camera. And worse, in the case of the 1Ds, I'd need to swap out all my lenses as well. Don't mind doing that if the image quality is there, but would rather not switch only to find I would have been much better off going a different route.

My decison is basically to upgrade and get two D2x cameras, a 1Ds, or a MF setup. I'd also have to get a backup body in regard to the 1Ds, which could be a film camera. With the MF digital back, I'd just by another body and a couple film backs. With the pair of D2x's, I'd have complete redundancy.

So you can see my delima? Image samples would be a big help, and I'd rather ask someone I trust than just grab some samples off the new that could have been tweaked by the manufacturers, etc.

[Jorge Torralba]

I will send you a raw file. You should be able to sharpen it and adjust colors. Keep in mind these are my first shots and still working out how to get good control of the camer. The camera has severl sharpness levels but I was told to use the photoshop sharpenning. Play with contrast and brightness as well.

Hope you get it. Its 62meg

[Jorge Torralba]

I think I may want the 1ds mark II. I need to see how much I can get for the 1ds with 3000 actuations in NEW condition with blank USA warranty card.

[gwelland]

Originally posted by Jorge Torralba
I think I may want the 1ds mark II. I need to see how much I can get for the 1ds with 3000 actuations in NEW condition with blank USA warranty card.

Really? Up until this Monday the 1Ds was the top dog of DSLRs and it isn't exactly shabby in performance terms. Sure the 1Ds II will be better, but then so will the 1Ds III, IV, V etc ....

However, as Ferris Bueller said 'I highly reccomend picking one up, if you have the means'. :cool:

[Matt Ramos]

Congrats and welcome to digital photography! I shoot with the Mark II version of the 1Ds - what an amazing camera!

[Jorge Torralba]

Matt, I willjoin you soon with a Mark II :) if I sell my 1DS. Cant wait.

[oftheherd]

Originally posted by Gene
His name is Mahesh Thapa and his website is:

http://www.starvingphotographer.com/

Gene

Wow!!

Thanks for sharing that. He has some really great b/w images there. Time to drag out my Toshiba and see what I can do to copy that technique.

[sfaust]

Jorge and gwelland. I got all the raw files. Tough choices, both look excellent and exceed my erquirements. I've noticed a lack fo 645M backs on the market, or I just don't know where to look. 1Ds seem fairly easy to find.

I'm going to wait and see what Nikon does with the D2x on pricing and how the quality looks. That would be the most obvious choice since I have a lot invested in Nikon glass, and I prefer the 1.5 sensor magnification since I tend to shoot at the long end anyway. A nice boost without loosing aperture speed.

I am almost tempted to get a 645M back regardless if I get a 1Ds or D2x. I just need to find one, and understand more about its operating characteristics (frame rate, write speed, etc). I'm very sare to assume its not a rabbit, but how much of a turtle is it for shooting fashion, models, etc. A frame a second isn't bad, but 1 frame every 3 seconds makes it a still life shooter for me.

Anyway, I'm babbling. Just wanted to thank you both for the help with the raw files.

[Jorge Torralba]

Stephen,

Read this article:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/1ds-mk11-vs-p25.shtml

[sfaust]

Thanks Jorge, you made me read the whole article only to come to the same conclusion!!! :D :D

The 1Ds MKII is knocking on the door of medium format film, while the MF Phase One is knocking on the door of 4x5 large format territory.

Either way, both of these solutions far exceed my primary needs, which is at most an 8x10 or double page spread magazine image. Even with my Fuji S2 at 6MP, my last two page magazine spread looked awesome! 8mp, 11mp, 12mp, 17mp, 22mp, all more than adequate for what I need and want.

I think the D2x at 12.2mp, and a 645M back at 16mp would fit my workstyle nicely. I really like the idea that I can change a back on my MF camera and be shooting 120 or 220 E6, B&W, C41, for high resolution digital. Thats a clear winner for me! The D2x with all the Nikon glass I have is perfect for location, traveling, or when speed is required. The Fuji S2 can serve as a backup body with my F5. Now I can shoot in film or digital, both MF and 35, with fast frame rates if needed, have backups for all solutions, and the results will be stunning if I'm up to the task. Sounds good to me!

Looking at the high res images you guys gave me from the 1Ds and the 645M MF back, shows me they are both in the ball park for my needs. The 645M had a clear edge, and at the prices they would be selling for make it a great addition to, rather than a replacement for my 35mm digital equipment. The Phase One back is astounding, and I've seen images from it. WOW. I look at the price, and again WOW. Or maybe double WOW!

I guess for me, it comes down to this. For the price of a 1Ds MkII, I can get a D2x and a 645M back! Or even a 1Ds and a 645M. For the price of the Phase One, well, I'd rather just go buy a nice BMW instead.

My problem seem sto be finding a 645M!

Thanks again guys for spending my money for me :D

[Jorge Torralba]

Stephen,

something else to consider. If you really like the option of going digtal or film with the back swapping. You may want to consider the Leica R8 or R9 with the Module R digital back due on the streets in Feb. This way you can switch between film and digital using the R8 or 9. I believe the Moduile R will sell for about 4K and the R8 bodies can be bought for less than 1k. The module is euither 10 or 11 MP.

Just another option. Not to mention No lens on the planet will come close to a Leica glass. :)

[sfaust]

Thanks, that does add more options. On the surface, I like the idea of switching backs on MF because I like shooting the larger neg sizes when using film. Not sure I would see the same benefits with the R8/R9 at the same price point, as I would with the MF stuff. But, its definitely worth looking over carefully before I make my final decision. Thanks for the info, and I'll go check it out!

[gwelland]

Stephen,

I used to shoot with a d1x outfit and the Mamiya 645afd/645M before consolidating to just the MF outfit, primarily because the Nikon outfit wasn't any more portable for my style of photography than the Mamiya. They are different beasts though and if it weren't for the fact that I sold the D1x kit to free up funds, I'd still be using and enjoying it. I use a Leica D2 these days for travel work but there are times when the flexibility of a 35mm DSLR would be useful. I'm certain that the D2x will be everything that it claims to be.

In terms of sourcing the 645M/C/H, eBay seems to be the most active market that I know of. They are regularly available for $5k or so these days. I bought two backs there, one turned out to be from my local dealer ProPhoto Supply 18 months ago, and the other from a working pro in NY back in August or so. There are plenty of honest sellers but you have to play safe.

[sfaust]

Thanks for the info. I did a quick look on eBay last week and didn't turn anything up. I'll setup a search and keep watching for something to turn up.

There are plenty of honest sellers but you have to play safe.
I always wear a condom while eBaying :)